Matt Berninger shares his unique affection for baseballs, which he distinguishes from a love for the game itself. “I throw baseballs with my daughter, but I don’t really follow baseball,” he admits. “I don’t have a favorite team and couldn’t name a single major league player if I tried.” For Berninger, who is the lead vocalist and frontman of the prominent American rock band The National, baseballs serve as unconventional journals for capturing musical ideas. “I have about 80 baseballs that I use like notebooks,” he explains. “I used to fill traditional notebooks, but there’s something enjoyable about holding a baseball in your hand.” He routinely jotted down title ideas or snippets of lyrics on these baseballs, allowing him to tap into a reservoir of inspiration whenever he needed a creative boost. “Whenever I needed a fresh idea,” he shares, “I would just pick up a baseball.”

These scribbled thoughts culminated in Berninger’s second solo album, Get Sunk, scheduled for release at the end of this month, which will be followed by a comprehensive UK tour starting in August. His debut solo project, Serpentine Prison, debuted in the fall of 2020 during the pandemic, making this forthcoming tour his first venture without his usual bandmates. Meeting in a hotel overlooking London’s Russell Square, I ask him if it feels like he’s betraying them.

“When it comes to music, the National operates as a polyamorous group,” Berninger reflects. “We’ve welcomed various collaborators into our creative space for 20 years. It’s akin to visiting another artist’s studio—you absorb so much, learn extensively, and grow as an artist yourself.”

If Get Sunk were a painting, it would capture the landscape of Berninger’s Indiana childhood—a realm of wildflowers, orange trees, creeks, and rivers. “Most of my happiest childhood memories are tied to that farm,” he reminisces. “It was filled with cousins, parents, aunts, and uncles. My childhood was akin to the film Stand By Me.”

The National has gained both acclaim and ridicule for their melancholic music, often labeled as songs for sad dads. Notably, one of their tracks, “Sorrow,” was famously performed on loop for six hours, further solidifying this reputation. “With the National, I unintentionally created a character,” Berninger explains. “With this new album, I’m aiming to redefine that character.”

Despite the lighter and more innocent tone of his new songs, they were born from a period of personal struggle during the pandemic, which plunged Berninger into depression and writer’s block. “It felt like a seven-month panic attack,” he recalls. “I couldn’t leave my bed, watch TV, or eat properly, resulting in a 20-pound weight loss. Music lost its appeal—I didn’t want to write at all.” Berninger questioned his identity separate from his role as a lead singer.

The National, which Berninger formed in 1999 in Brooklyn alongside Aaron and Bryce Dessner, and Scott and Bryan Devendorf, transformed from a group of transplants from Cincinnati into one of the most respected indie bands of the 21st century. Their lyrical depth and Berninger’s distinctive baritone attracted a diverse fanbase, including Taylor Swift, who has acknowledged them as her favorite band. This acclaim felt precarious during his depressive phase.

“I often thought about returning to graphic design,” he admits. “But I had evolved into a better songwriter than I was a designer. I didn’t have a backup plan.” Berninger explored antidepressants, eliminated alcohol from his life, and quit cannabis, yet none provided relief. Ultimately, it was “time and rest” that aided his recovery. “Once I managed to stop panicking and could sleep again, my creativity returned,” he notes.

The National’s lyrics have long delved into a vulnerable masculinity intertwined with anxiety and emotional transparency. So how does Berninger perceive the rise of hyper-masculinity within certain political spheres? “I think men are scared they’re losing something,” he states. “That notion is unfounded, and I feel disheartened by the pathetic displays of aggression from self-proclaimed strong men. Figures like Tate, Putin, and Musk are merely frightened, bitter individuals. When fear dominates you, your only means of exerting power is to intimidate. It’s disheartening. I hope for a world where women and feminine values take precedence.”

With his wife, Carin Besser, a former fiction editor at The New Yorker and a frequent contributor to his songwriting, Berninger lives in Connecticut with their teenage daughter. Since its inception, he has collaborated with female artists, including Phoebe Bridgers, Rosanne Cash, and Taylor Swift. Fellow band member Aaron Dessner co-produced many of Swift’s acclaimed albums, Folklore and Evermore, while Berninger joined Swift on the track “Coney Island,” with Swift reciprocating on his song “The Alcott.”

When asked if he’s the coolest dad in his daughter’s school, he responds with a smile, “There are a lot of really cool dads out there, but yeah, I’m up there.” He reflects on the unusual perception his collaboration with Swift brings, stating, “It’s an abstract concept for many. Some believe I’ve met aliens or traveled to the moon.” Did he learn anything from her? “Most songwriters are incredibly insecure and feel misunderstood,” he observes. “They all start out creating intimate songs in their bedrooms. Taylor is a master at lyrics; she draws listeners in, creating a feeling of familiarity and companionship. Her success is rooted in crafting truly exceptional songs. So, yes, I’ve learned a lot from Taylor Swift.”

The songs on Get Sunk possess a dreamlike quality and evoke a sense of innocence. “I aimed to foster a feeling of a hopeful America,” Berninger says. “A life and world I long to experience. I love America and consider myself patriotic, inspired by figures like Muhammad Ali, JFK, and Joan Didion. However, I notice that America’s darker impulses are resurfacing, possibly from its origins.”

His efforts to depict a more optimistic and innocent version of America carry both personal and political significance. “While we’re making some poor choices, I refuse to let that discourage me,” he declares. “Art remains crucial, so I’ll continue to create, regardless of external challenges.”

Get Sunk is set to launch on May 30, and Berninger will embark on a UK tour commencing on August 25.